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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of of look on the

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sa

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my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast we are into february and i have

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on with me for his what must be third or

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fourth appearance now investigative

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journalist and co-founder of the debrief

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which is one of the best websites out

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there in terms of not just ufo news but

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science and all that kind of good stuff

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as well i've got tim mcmillan tim

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welcome back to the podcast

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it is a pleasure to be here andy it it

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is i forget i

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it is the third or fourth time i don't

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know it's always good chatting with you

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you know but i remember early on we got

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a chance to chat when you first launched

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this thing and so it's fun to keep

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coming back because you especially as

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you've grown things up man it's fun to

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watch this show no thanks

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i think that was the end of may or early

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june 2020 you were my fifth guest

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so yeah

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it was fun man no i could tell then this

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was gonna be a fun show so it's a

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pleasure to be back and always good to

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chat hopefully we'll who knows we'll get

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some good stuff out

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yes um there's a lot to talk about and

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this was one that i've spent a bit of

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time on taking a lot of really good

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stuff out as well i think not just in

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terms of listener questions and topics

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but just we couldn't cover everything in

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the time we've got so um i want to get

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right into it tim listen we keep hearing

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that since maybe

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october november december through to

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this year we're in a down period for the

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topic of ufos and uaps for an

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investigative journalist like yourself

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what is this quote-unquote down period

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been like

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oh man that's a good question and i

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think it probably hasn't been nearly as

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uh

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maybe anxious

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as as it is for a lot of people who

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follow the topic really intimately and

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and i completely am sympathetic with

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people who

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are you know these laws where there's no

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information coming out they're like what

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the heck is going on you know it gets uh

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it could get frustrating um i guess

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fortunately for me

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ufos are not something that i've always

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solely focused on you know in addition

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to to running everything with the

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debrief and making sure that's going on

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and it that takes a lot of work

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you know trying to start up an online

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news company but my interests in general

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have always branched out and in fact my

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interest in national security defense

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type areas is what you could say worked

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in reverse that's what the fact when

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they started talking about ufos is when

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my interest really grabbed hold and i

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started

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you know pursuing it from from a

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journalism standpoint and so in these

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kind of flow periods it hasn't felt like

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a law period for me

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primarily because and i think people who

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follow me on twitter have probably seen

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it uh you know there's been a lot going

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on in the world of geopolitics and

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defense you've got a lot going on in

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ukraine right now so i've been

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i've still been very active and focused

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on stuff it's just uh

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in addition to the fact

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of working with stuff with ufos as well

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and i guess

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intermixed with all of that you could

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also say i'm never

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there's never a ufo law period for me

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either because i've always got something

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going on but from

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the product that's coming out i can see

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how people see that but that's

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it's kind of how always i've i'll work

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on stuff for a year before an article

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comes out but you try to make it

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complete

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but uh there's constant work for me uh

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behind the scenes i'll say that much

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so it hasn't felt like a law

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no and it's not to myself either i think

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dan and i have discussed this on a few

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of the breakdowns that i thought would

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have went really quiet for a while but

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there's still been a lot of good

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interviews out there i mean jim semivans

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just done a good one on coast to coast

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um colin kelleher and uh george knapp

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were just on with theories of everything

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last night caught joy mungo i'm wearing

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his hoodie just now so thanks to

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cut i mean i did pay for it so you know

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he can thank me as well

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and also you've got chris melon

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releasing articles through the debrief

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which we'll talk about in a little while

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as well so there's a lot to still get

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your teeth into and if you look through

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um

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yeah it's not been a quiet quiet period

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i want to get an early listener question

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and because it fits in here and from

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pleasureman what a name on twitter um he

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said the subject of ufo uap is still

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after so many years not proven to be

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something extraordinary in terms of its

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origin basically it can still be a lot

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of misidentifications

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what's driving tim to invest the time he

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has and does into the subject still

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and i suppose you might touch on what

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you just mentioned about it you can work

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on an article for a year before it even

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comes out

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sure no yeah you know i saw that when

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you when you put that on twitter asking

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for listener questions and i saw that

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when i thought man that was a great

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question i'm glad i'm glad that that

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made it uh because it is an interesting

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question because you're absolutely right

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uh or what was it pleasure man you're

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absolutely right

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it's very understandable that a lot of

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people who would spend significant time

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in this topic you get frustrated after a

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while because you reach this wall and i

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think if you're going to be

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if you're going to maintain a true air

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of legitimacy by where the standard of

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what is fact is evidence-based you reach

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this wall where you are you start and

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finish the same you're like i still

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don't know

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and that's frustrating i think for the

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topic itself what keeps me motivated and

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continues my interest in it

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isn't for the same reasons that maybe a

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lot of people follow the subject for

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this idea that there's going to be a

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disclosure or this idea that we're going

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to

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reveal you know some sort of secret

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that's going to really change the course

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of human history maybe that will happen

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i think that's awesome i would love that

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but at the same time there's so many

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other variables

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of the ufo topic that i find fascinating

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aside from just

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the idea of what are these objects what

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are people seeing but but it goes into

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you know how do we solve complex

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problems i've always been very

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interested in that i pay a lot of

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attention to

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it's part of the reason besides just

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having

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an interest in the defense world in how

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would the defense world solve a complex

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problem like this i think it's it's much

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more complex than people

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realize just based on all sorts of

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bureaucratic nuances and and just junk

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in the system it's uh

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it's not something that the system is

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inherently set up to establish

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and then even on that side in the

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defense world side

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it's a very fascinating

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problem to look at

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from just

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policy and political science you look at

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it from uh you know i do that in a lot

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of the people i talk to

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is you know this is a

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you know this is a problem that requires

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a whole of government approach and uh

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either that is the the especially the

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u.s government you know that

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the government system that i'm most

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versed in

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it's not something they're really well

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equipped to do and i think that's

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interesting and at the same time i think

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there's some

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you know

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i don't want to make it sound more uh

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put more gravity into it than maybe it

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really is but but at the same time it is

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a significant there is kind of this

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moral

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uh

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obligation to the idea that even if it's

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not ufos there can always be something

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that comes up we've seen this with a

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pandemic where you need a whole of

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government approach you need you know

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specific to ufos you need the dod to

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work with the fbi or the department of

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energy

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or

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you know some of them that aren't even

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defense or law enforcement agencies so

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you're science-based agencies like nasa

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or noaa you need all these people to

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work together and this is not something

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that they do

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and i don't think people realize that

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they're very separate entities uh

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and so that in itself is fascinating how

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do you solve a complex problem in a

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bureaucratic institution like this in

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government

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and then at the same time there's this

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mystery out there and i think that's

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compelling you know i think that's why

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it lingers out there

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i think it's a

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it's kind of a catch-22 mystery because

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a part of me wants to solve that mystery

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and absolutely

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would if i could you know if i got the

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big reveal

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no doubts i would tell the world

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but at the same time it's always once

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the mystery's gone there's no more

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mystery you know anybody remembers the

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uh the movie seven with brad pitt when

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they you know he opens up the box but

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they never show you what's in the box

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and what's in the box you know all these

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things where uh you know movies or books

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leave you with this cliffhanger and

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where you have a mystery because it can

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then be whatever it is to you

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uh there's something alluring about a

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mystery as long as it exists so i think

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as long as there is a mystery as

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frustrating as it is for me i think i'll

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keep chasing it just for that thrill of

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chasing a mystery and i would encourage

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people to do the same i think a lot of

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people get

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burnt out frustrated um a lot of

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antagonism goes on because i think

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they're trying to really get to that

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that goal line but uh at the end of the

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day

279
00:09:55,590 --> 00:09:53,680
i don't know that any of us know what

280
00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:55,600
that goal line looks like anyway it

281
00:09:58,630 --> 00:09:57,040
might not look like what they think

282
00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:58,640
anyway

283
00:10:01,670 --> 00:10:00,000
yeah and it's like

284
00:10:03,430 --> 00:10:01,680
like the movie reference i always think

285
00:10:05,829 --> 00:10:03,440
tarantino and pulp fiction they open the

286
00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:05,839
gold briefcase and it's uh what's in the

287
00:10:09,269 --> 00:10:07,760
briefcase is it someone's soul is it

288
00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:09,279
gold is it this is it that there's all

289
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:11,279
these incredible theories that link the

290
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:13,519
movies together but if you really really

291
00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:16,000
found out you would have been okay it

292
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:17,440
would have been the thing in that set

293
00:10:20,710 --> 00:10:18,880
and there's not that conversation and

294
00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:20,720
debate that happens around it

295
00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:22,160
i think that the beauty though of this

296
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:24,560
subject is let's say for example one of

297
00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:26,320
these fast walkers you you wrote a great

298
00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:28,640
article on that some time ago we find

299
00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:31,040
out it's extraterrestrial that's not the

300
00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:32,720
end of the mystery is it because okay

301
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:34,000
where are they from why are they here

302
00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:35,839
how long have they been here what's the

303
00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:37,680
tech you know are there more of them if

304
00:10:41,110 --> 00:10:39,279
there was no one inside who's

305
00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:41,120
controlling them i think it's one of

306
00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:43,440
those just incredible spider diagrams

307
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:44,720
going back to school where you've just

308
00:10:48,710 --> 00:10:47,440
got all these bubbles and lines coming

309
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:48,720
off of each other

310
00:10:51,829 --> 00:10:50,560
having that that debate and discussion

311
00:10:54,310 --> 00:10:51,839
around it

312
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,320
sure yeah no it really

313
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,880
it truly is and i know

314
00:11:01,269 --> 00:10:58,800
when i've interviewed scientists who

315
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:01,279
work on uh some of the the techno

316
00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:02,959
signatures hunting stuff so not

317
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:05,200
necessarily specific to ufos but but

318
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:07,519
there's a big push now we've seen with

319
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:08,880
the launch of the james webb where we're

320
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:10,399
continuing to push out further into

321
00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:11,839
space and

322
00:11:17,430 --> 00:11:15,120
we're increasingly become you know more

323
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,440
sophisticated in our ability to

324
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:19,760
potentially detect biological or

325
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:22,320
technological life that exists out there

326
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,880
and you know i always ask them

327
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,640
uh i was like did you ever stop and

328
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:28,240
consider you know for some of these

329
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:29,760
people have spent their entire career

330
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:32,959
it's gotten phds about this hunt for

331
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,040
extraterrestrial life i was that if

332
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,279
there are excuse me not if i think it's

333
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:41,600
it's it's pretty much accepted that

334
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:44,240
there has to be uh intelligent life out

335
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:47,440
there and therefore that probably means

336
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:49,279
they're looking to

337
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,880
if they haven't gotten here so this is

338
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,040
interesting idea do you ever think that

339
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:54,880
you're out there with the big telescope

340
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,399
peering out there

341
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:58,079
and at the same time

342
00:12:02,629 --> 00:12:00,240
there is other intelligent life doing

343
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:02,639
the same perhaps peering back at us

344
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,160
perhaps trying to

345
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:06,560
likewise develop the technology or as a

346
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,760
lot of people think when it comes to

347
00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:09,360
ufos they're already you know have

348
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:11,200
already mastered that so i think that's

349
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:12,800
the there's this there's a

350
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:16,160
incredibly interesting dynamic of it and

351
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:18,480
you're absolutely right once even

352
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,399
there there's there's perhaps an endless

353
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:22,720
number of mysteries that are associated

354
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,399
with this and

355
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:26,800
that process of trying to solve it is

356
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:28,240
interesting

357
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,760
well for the moment keeping things a

358
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:31,440
little bit more terrestrial you

359
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:32,800
mentioned that compartment

360
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:34,399
compartmentalization

361
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:36,480
uh in the us government particularly

362
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:38,240
which happens in all governments and i

363
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:39,519
want to get your thoughts on the

364
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,440
upcoming ufo office because i think last

365
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:43,600
time we spoke it was on the gillibrand

366
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:45,680
amendment and what could possibly happen

367
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,680
things coming from that we obviously

368
00:12:51,110 --> 00:12:49,360
know the amendment went through with the

369
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:51,120
proviso at the end of the day we're

370
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,279
going to have a legitimate ufo office

371
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,519
and in the background right now

372
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:57,360
that's getting put together what do you

373
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:58,880
know right now that's happening in the

374
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,560
background in terms of this office and

375
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:02,240
what are your thoughts on it

376
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:06,000
sure yeah to the best of my knowledge

377
00:13:11,190 --> 00:13:08,800
the office that has

378
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:11,200
has been put together already that

379
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:13,279
essentially uh

380
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,320
you know a lot of the concerns that

381
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:16,320
maybe people expressed back in november

382
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,320
that um

383
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:20,240
the office that the under or the under

384
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:21,839
secretary for intelligence announced

385
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,360
abruptly before the amendment ever

386
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:25,440
passed that this was going to become it

387
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:26,720
uh

388
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:28,880
that is ex that exists and i believe

389
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:31,839
that that is going to at this point

390
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:34,480
be the office that that fulfills the

391
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:35,600
requirements that were established

392
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:37,120
through the legislation

393
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,120
uh there you know

394
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:41,600
other people have told me that there is

395
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:44,320
uh significant potential for a parallel

396
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:46,560
office to be run by the director of

397
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,880
national intelligence and i think if you

398
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:50,639
really get into the the nitty-gritty of

399
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:51,920
that bill

400
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,880
it absolutely ambiguously infers that

401
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:55,920
that's something that's going to be

402
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:57,920
needed because

403
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,000
again going back to this bureaucracy the

404
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,040
dod and od and i are separate entities

405
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:04,959
so they're separate deals so if you're

406
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:07,600
going to work in concert with odni odni

407
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:10,240
has to have some kind of official

408
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:12,480
body in place to work with

409
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,320
so you've got to have these lego pieces

410
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:16,320
fit together so i certainly believe that

411
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:18,240
there's going to be

412
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:21,600
a joint odni effort but that i believe

413
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:23,120
is still in the works the one that the

414
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:27,199
dod has been kind of mandated uh is up

415
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:31,040
to the best of my knowledge uh i wa you

416
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:32,480
know

417
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:33,440
who

418
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:38,240
involved in that office

419
00:14:42,150 --> 00:14:40,880
uh i think that uh

420
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:42,160
you know you've heard some people like

421
00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:44,079
christopher mellon and lou elizondo

422
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:45,279
express

423
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,880
concerns about who's going to be

424
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:48,880
involved with that and i think that

425
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:52,880
those concerns are are founded

426
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,920
based on what i know i think

427
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,720
just

428
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:58,720
you know looking at the staff summary

429
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:01,360
sheet of who's involved in that office

430
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:02,399
um

431
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:05,120
you know i wouldn't uh some i know some

432
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,480
i don't know uh and and some i know have

433
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:10,720
been antagonistic towards the topic so

434
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:13,279
it's kind of like oh my god you know do

435
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:15,120
you want uh

436
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,600
you know do you do you want the guy who

437
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:19,600
absolutely hates your football team to

438
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,839
be your quarterback on your team you

439
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:23,279
know type deal

440
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:25,760
and so there's some concerns there uh at

441
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:28,320
the same time it's still very early on

442
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:31,120
and i think most importantly

443
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,600
that congress has really expressed well

444
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,279
uh regardless of what it looks like

445
00:15:39,749 --> 00:15:37,279
right now or regardless of the product

446
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:39,759
uh there's gonna be expectations met by

447
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,320
lawmakers so

448
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:44,639
i think it's still a fluid process i

449
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:47,440
think after you you have your first kind

450
00:15:51,189 --> 00:15:49,120
of uh

451
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:51,199
your first briefings and your first when

452
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,800
they meet with the armed services

453
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,160
committee or the intel's committee and

454
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:55,920
give them kind of an overview of the

455
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:58,000
last three months or six months whatever

456
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:59,040
they're doing

457
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,920
um

458
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:01,440
you know obviously questions will be

459
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:04,399
asked it'll be interesting to see how

460
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,600
this office changes or morphs

461
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,959
based on

462
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:10,880
is who they have in place right now

463
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,320
currently going to

464
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:14,079
produce the results that congress wants

465
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:15,440
to see

466
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:17,680
what are some of the pros and cons of

467
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:20,000
the upcoming ufo office that we're

468
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:22,160
hoping to get that you can see is there

469
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:23,279
anything you can think start with the

470
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:24,480
pros first

471
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:25,600
what are what are some of the best

472
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:28,720
results that could come from it

473
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:30,880
i think the the you know

474
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,000
obviously

475
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:34,560
the biggest pros here for that

476
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:36,560
and it was really surprising when i saw

477
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:39,199
that come out is because uh you know and

478
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:40,800
a lot of people maybe haven't

479
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,160
really appreciated the fact that this

480
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:43,920
was the first time

481
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:46,480
in american history that you had uh you

482
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:49,360
had congress openly legislating the ufo

483
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:50,720
topic you know that's never happened

484
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:53,199
before the blue book you look at that

485
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:55,680
blue book was an eternal

486
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:57,600
program started by the air force they

487
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:59,519
managed it themselves you know they may

488
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:01,680
have provided results to the public but

489
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,880
but at no point in time were they

490
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,240
mandated by congress they weren't

491
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:06,400
mandated by law to do anything they

492
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:07,600
could close it whenever the heck they

493
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:09,919
wanted to which they did whereas in this

494
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:11,199
one now this is something that's

495
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,000
mandated by law so

496
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,160
the way this system is supposed to work

497
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,400
is that your lawmakers are elected by

498
00:17:22,949 --> 00:17:20,640
the people and they're supposed to

499
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:22,959
express the will of the people on to the

500
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:24,959
government services and in this instance

501
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,360
they've expressed the will that this is

502
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:29,039
this is a situation or issue that they

503
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:30,799
want to see taken seriously they want to

504
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:34,400
see resources allocated and dedicated to

505
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,280
this

506
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:37,120
and so for the first time

507
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:39,760
you you've got a government that cannot

508
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:40,720
um

509
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:43,120
deny or diminish how much work they're

510
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:44,720
putting into it

511
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,799
because they're legally mandated to be

512
00:17:51,909 --> 00:17:48,960
putting this work into it so there is

513
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:51,919
this line of uh accountability now and

514
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:53,360
so if they're saying oh we're not doing

515
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,720
this or we're not doing that or no we

516
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,960
don't take ufo reports so we don't look

517
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:58,640
into them you're like well then you're

518
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,039
breaking the law and you have your

519
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,200
lawmakers there who are supposed to hold

520
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:04,880
them accountable for that and so i think

521
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,000
the fact that we're seeing the ufo topic

522
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:10,320
put into law and legislation that's very

523
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:12,000
very significant and it's very

524
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:13,280
significant for what's the level of

525
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:14,720
accountability

526
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:17,039
and what we'll see ultimately is that's

527
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:18,320
produced

528
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,440
uh cons wise i think that

529
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:25,200
they can do

530
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:28,880
an absolutely expert job inside of this

531
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:32,480
and they can solve lots of mysteries and

532
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,679
they can

533
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,240
hold within their grasp

534
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:38,880
just irrefutable evidence that this what

535
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:41,120
this represents you know

536
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:44,240
and if it so long as it represents uh

537
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,080
what it appears to represent currently

538
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:47,919
which is inherently

539
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,559
a demonstration of vulnerabilities to

540
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:53,200
american and other countries national

541
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:54,240
defense

542
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:56,240
that's something that is going to be

543
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,240
inherently classified

544
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:00,960
it's going to be in here safeguarded as

545
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:03,440
much as people want to

546
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:06,160
uh believe or think that uh you know if

547
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:07,440
they especially if they knew this was

548
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:09,039
something that wasn't human that that

549
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,720
would be immediately shared with the

550
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,960
world and we would all you know this

551
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:14,720
would be this great breakthrough that's

552
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,039
not how the defense world thinks that's

553
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,520
not what they're paid to do and from

554
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:20,960
them they view it from a defense

555
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:22,880
standpoint and if they

556
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,720
have something that they have no defense

557
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:26,480
against that's not something we're ever

558
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:29,840
going to hear about and that's so that's

559
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,679
very difficult and i've always said as

560
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:33,600
long as it remains in the national

561
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,039
security world

562
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:36,960
solely

563
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,840
it's going to be very hard to get that

564
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,000
uh that information that people really

565
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:44,480
want to see out there the information

566
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:45,600
that they can

567
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:47,120
show to other people and say look here

568
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:49,520
you go this is irrefutable evidence that

569
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:52,000
i'm not crazy what i saw is what i saw

570
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,400
this is not just

571
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:57,120
drones balloons birds and swamp gas

572
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:58,240
uh

573
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:00,799
that's that's going to be a hard ticket

574
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:02,799
to get out of

575
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,679
of the defense world

576
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,600
uh it's something that where they've

577
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,679
they've mitigated that risk or or they

578
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:11,600
have determined that it is not a risk

579
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:13,039
it's not a threat

580
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:16,640
and i'm i'm not certain that that has uh

581
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:18,240
i have no evidence that that has ever

582
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,720
been achieved that they've ever

583
00:20:25,270 --> 00:20:23,280
conclusively ruled out in light of

584
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:25,280
comments that they have made

585
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,559
um

586
00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:28,720
in public over the decades where they

587
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:30,240
said i think even the uk government

588
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:32,159
that's their stance is

589
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,039
much like blue book that uh ufos don't

590
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,360
pose a threat to national security okay

591
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:39,360
cool what are they you know birds don't

592
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:40,640
pose a threat to national security

593
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:42,640
either but but i can read a book about

594
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,240
them so what are they

595
00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:47,039
um i would say that that uh

596
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:48,400
that's probably

597
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,679
that'll that alone has is probably a a

598
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:53,840
lie from governments when they say that

599
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:56,320
it doesn't represent not that it does

600
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:58,400
represent a threat but rather that they

601
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:00,960
have conclusively determined that it

602
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:03,520
there isn't threat potential there

603
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:04,559
and so

604
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:06,880
yeah it's it's an interesting slope as

605
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:10,080
long as it remains there in the dod

606
00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:11,600
and uh

607
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,760
you know even if the people that may be

608
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,520
in place now if they're antagonistic

609
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,200
towards ufo topic

610
00:21:21,430 --> 00:21:19,600
uh you know the ones i know you trust

611
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:21,440
that they're still defense professionals

612
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:23,200
they're going to handle it like defense

613
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,039
professionals i think that's a concern

614
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:27,120
for the public and the transparency side

615
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,640
of things

616
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:30,799
it's interesting on the pros that you're

617
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:32,080
saying it's great things are getting

618
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:34,000
signed into law that's that's exciting

619
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:37,280
that's that's unprecedented on the cons

620
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,559
um

621
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:41,440
the classified side of things

622
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:42,880
almost is

623
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:44,880
they start to counteract each other

624
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,720
don't they because i've had this

625
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,720
conversation with people including

626
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:51,200
some members of the of the us forces

627
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:52,559
where they seem and they're very

628
00:21:56,070 --> 00:21:54,320
patriotic and understand that and it's

629
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,080
easier for me not being an american to

630
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,400
talk about this kind of stuff but

631
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:00,960
people lie and people circumnavigate the

632
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:03,440
law and if you're looking at a subject

633
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:04,240
as

634
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:14,159
well it's no law so you have to tell us

635
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:15,600
everything you know and in a little

636
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,720
while we're going to get to talking

637
00:22:21,029 --> 00:22:18,880
about the us air force who i'm sure no

638
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:21,039
plenty of ways around

639
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:22,559
those particular laws and i'm sure

640
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:24,320
already know what they can and can't do

641
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:25,360
because

642
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,840
part of that uap task force they they

643
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:29,440
were instructed to comply and give

644
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:30,720
information and it looks like chris

645
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:32,159
mellon's already come out and said well

646
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,679
they didn't did they

647
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:35,520
so just because it's law doesn't mean

648
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:36,400
that we're going to get all that

649
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:38,480
transparency we hoped for

650
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:40,480
we know

651
00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:42,400
absolutely

652
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:44,320
highly accurate point and you're 100

653
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:46,880
correct especially in given that the

654
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:49,520
fact that um

655
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:51,280
you know you know after saying all of

656
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:53,520
this of how the defense line thinking is

657
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:54,880
that this has threat potential and

658
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,480
therefore it has to remain in the

659
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,799
classified and top secret world

660
00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,400
threat potential and threat are two

661
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,320
different ball games here one is the

662
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:03,919
potential to be threatening the other is

663
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:05,919
an actual overthread

664
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,679
that ladder an overt threat there's

665
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,520
really no evidence for that whatsoever i

666
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,880
mean there's plenty of instances that

667
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:12,640
i'm aware of there's plenty of instances

668
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,480
where you know the tic tac could have

669
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:16,720
fired on favor and dietrich and didn't

670
00:23:19,909 --> 00:23:18,559
and you know so there's all these things

671
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:19,919
we certainly haven't seen war of the

672
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:23,360
worlds here so the consequences

673
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,360
of not being forthcoming even when

674
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,360
you're supposed to and which you just

675
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:29,919
mentioned the circumventing of law

676
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:32,400
and putting a half-hearted effort in it

677
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,960
uh you know you can certainly see people

678
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:36,880
viewing those as reasonably low because

679
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:38,320
it's not like

680
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:42,480
give a you know half an effort into

681
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,559
looking to counter terrorism or

682
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:46,000
something like that where you run the

683
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:48,000
risk that now you're going to have some

684
00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:49,919
type of terrorist event

685
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:51,600
and it's going to be a loss of life and

686
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:52,880
it's going to be a very big deal these

687
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:55,279
are huge consequences whereas you view

688
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,320
this half i don't tell them everything

689
00:24:02,549 --> 00:24:00,320
we can make this go away

690
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:02,559
the likelihood that the outcome of this

691
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:04,720
is going to be catastrophic or is going

692
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:06,720
to make us look bad as low so yeah no

693
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:10,159
you're you're absolutely right it's a

694
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:13,440
you know it's it's an interesting area

695
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,880
that uh

696
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,039
this extends beyond ufos when it comes

697
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:19,440
to the government is how forthcoming is

698
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:20,799
the military

699
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,039
being with the lawmakers that they're

700
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:25,440
legally supposed to be and

701
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,039
there's certainly

702
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:29,039
you know an abundance of evidence to

703
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:30,880
suggest that if

704
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:32,240
any of the branches the military the

705
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:34,240
department of defense wants to be

706
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:35,919
uh they want to

707
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,400
obstruct things if they want to just

708
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:40,320
circumvent things for a host of reasons

709
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:42,080
they certainly will and can you know

710
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:43,039
they

711
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,760
often bring up the fact that uh

712
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:48,080
the the dod was

713
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:51,200
ordered by executive order to provide an

714
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:53,440
audit of their budget

715
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:55,360
like 30 years ago

716
00:25:00,310 --> 00:24:58,320
and still hasn't turned this thing in so

717
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,320
i mean

718
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:02,400
yeah they can they can shuffle things

719
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:05,840
around and and push things around

720
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:07,760
and especially

721
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:11,360
it depends on how much of an issue does

722
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:12,960
the public or lawmakers want to make it

723
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,360
as well i think that's you know are they

724
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:16,960
gonna be held accountable for that kind

725
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:18,080
of stuff

726
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:18,880
um

727
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:20,559
i think that's interesting and i know

728
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,240
you you that was one of the things was

729
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:24,640
interesting about chris mellon's article

730
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:26,640
that he did with us on the air force is

731
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:27,679
he he

732
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:28,640
i think

733
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,600
called out uh you know appropriately

734
00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:33,520
instances where it seemed like people

735
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:35,600
like lawmakers like the task force like

736
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,640
the dod

737
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:38,799
were allowing why were they allowing the

738
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,480
air force

739
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:42,559
to circumvent things and not provide

740
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:44,640
data that's being asked for why is this

741
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:46,559
being allowed to go on

742
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,630
i wonder

743
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,240
you mentioned you know

744
00:25:58,230 --> 00:25:56,559
what the expectations may be from this

745
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,240
public hearings is something that gets

746
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,400
brought up constantly is that something

747
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:02,400
you think can realistically be expected

748
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,039
to come from this in 2022 you mentioned

749
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,200
holding people accountable it's not

750
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:09,120
something i'm necessarily

751
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:11,039
concerned about myself i don't feel that

752
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,799
moves the conversation forward that

753
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,480
we're all looking for to get the answers

754
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,960
but maybe it'll be a consequence of of

755
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:18,480
any kind of disclosure if you want to

756
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:20,640
call it that but can we expect any kind

757
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:25,120
of public hearings on ufos being had um

758
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:26,720
i mean if you were to ask my opinion

759
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,440
right now as we see things no

760
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:31,679
just because i don't see the

761
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:33,840
political pressure that goes into it you

762
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:35,760
know in american politics oftentimes and

763
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:38,880
if you you think of the public hearings

764
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,600
that uh most people are familiar with uh

765
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:43,120
i mean public hearings go on all the

766
00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:46,000
time just nobody watches c-span but

767
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,159
the ones that capture people's attention

768
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,400
they're very politically motivated you

769
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,480
know it's the russian interference

770
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:54,400
election so it's this politics

771
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:56,559
republicans versus democrats right now

772
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:59,039
it's the january 6 commission it's very

773
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,039
politically motivated you know when they

774
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,720
bring big tech in and they yell at mark

775
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:04,559
zuckerberg and the rest of them

776
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:06,080
there's there's big political

777
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:07,919
motivations behind that

778
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:11,200
and presently i don't see either side of

779
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:15,600
the aisle viewing the ufo topic it is a

780
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,600
political issue that they want to make

781
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,679
the other side look bad for not taking

782
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,360
care of that kind of thing

783
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:23,039
and it's unfortunate because that's when

784
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:26,640
we see a lot of public hearings occur

785
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:28,960
the other side of that is that congress

786
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,840
doesn't have the authority to declassify

787
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,360
itself so

788
00:27:37,029 --> 00:27:34,799
going back to what i mentioned about how

789
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,039
much so much can be classified so much

790
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:39,600
can be guarded as state secrets

791
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,399
um

792
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:42,559
they can request hearings they can hold

793
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:44,960
public hearings that are

794
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,760
extremely limited you know you know

795
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,320
perhaps uh very similar to

796
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,320
essentially reading what was released in

797
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:54,640
that preliminary report by od and i last

798
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:55,440
june

799
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:56,240
um

800
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:58,000
reading that

801
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:00,480
or the equivalent of answering that and

802
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:03,360
then therefore even if you look at those

803
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:05,039
uh different hearings that i mentioned

804
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:06,720
uh earlier you'll see public hearings

805
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:09,039
but then you'll see you know after lunch

806
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:10,720
we're gonna have a closed door hearing

807
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:11,760
about this so that's where the

808
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:13,520
classified information is because at the

809
00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:16,399
end of the day congress cannot tell the

810
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,279
dod uh you need to declassify that that

811
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:21,840
actually um you know has to come from

812
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,559
the president so you know the the

813
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,320
authority to classify anything is

814
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,320
through the executive privilege and so

815
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,240
the president is the only person who has

816
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,399
the authority to classify anything

817
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:34,320
and uh

818
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,320
again just going into

819
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:38,880
if you ask my opinion right now um i i

820
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:41,360
wouldn't foresee that because uh there's

821
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:42,960
been

822
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:44,559
zero

823
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,480
current president president biden has

824
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:50,799
any interest in this or has certainly

825
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,600
has

826
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:53,440
made this an issue

827
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,080
uh amongst his executive branches and

828
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,720
said look i want an answer to this and i

829
00:29:01,669 --> 00:29:00,159
want it to come out for the american

830
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:01,679
people

831
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,760
and so i don't see a lot of those parts

832
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:05,760
in place you know those parts come in

833
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:08,000
place

834
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:09,919
perhaps you will but

835
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:11,600
right now i don't see any public

836
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:17,350
do you think we necessarily need those

837
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:19,200
public hearings to push this

838
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:20,880
conversation forward is there going to

839
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,720
be a benefit to that or

840
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:24,720
is the best way to go forward with this

841
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:27,200
to try and get some of those different

842
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,440
departments working together in some

843
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,520
capacity i'm going to move on shortly to

844
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:33,279
talk about the us air force and chris

845
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:36,320
mellon's comments but as the best way

846
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:37,840
to have people like chris melon and what

847
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,919
he seems to be doing putting pressure on

848
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:41,760
those departments you know what

849
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:44,880
this is going to go one of two ways and

850
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:46,080
you can make it a lot easier for

851
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,679
yourselves to cooperate and at least

852
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,039
that way it gives them some measure of

853
00:29:56,549 --> 00:29:54,950
sure no i i do i do see a benefit into

854
00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:56,559
these public hearings you know

855
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:58,159
especially in getting things moving

856
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,279
forward

857
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:01,840
if for no other reason then and there's

858
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:04,480
there's been stuff that uh

859
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:05,440
i

860
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:08,559
happy

861
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:09,919
about behind the scenes where i've

862
00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:11,520
reported on things that have been said

863
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:13,600
during closed door meetings uh in

864
00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:17,440
particularly when uh the director of the

865
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,159
zapco the special access programs

866
00:30:24,789 --> 00:30:22,799
for the dods the office that's in charge

867
00:30:26,470 --> 00:30:24,799
of all the top secret stuff the the

868
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:26,480
special access programs

869
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:29,760
uh you know has testified and said that

870
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:32,080
uh the stuff in you know these nimitz

871
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:36,559
videos like this is not us technology um

872
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:38,960
and so there is i think there's immense

873
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,159
benefit

874
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:42,960
uh for pushing the ball forward and

875
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:44,880
getting a lot of people who are on the

876
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,240
fence so who

877
00:30:50,870 --> 00:30:48,480
uh who who don't view this as being

878
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:50,880
maybe a big mystery as it might be and

879
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,360
kind of easily dismiss it as well yeah

880
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:55,520
maybe it's real tangible something it's

881
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,159
real tangible aerospace something

882
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:00,960
but it's got to be classified uh i think

883
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:02,720
there's huge benefit if you've got

884
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:05,120
somebody like the sapco director if

885
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,480
you've got uh you know the the air force

886
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:10,399
chief who's there testifying in front of

887
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:13,440
congress sworn in under oath

888
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:15,760
under threat of perjury and penalty of

889
00:31:20,389 --> 00:31:16,640
law

890
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:20,399
and he he or she says you know

891
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:22,799
these objects that are being classified

892
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:25,919
as uap that have been observed or filmed

893
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,360
by our service members these are not

894
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:32,000
air force technology these are not dod

895
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:35,200
technology uh because then you you have

896
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:36,640
to make the decision well are they just

897
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:39,200
lying under oath and committing you know

898
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:41,919
this this very public crime you know

899
00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:43,279
when they could say i'm not gonna answer

900
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:44,000
that

901
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:47,840
gonna you're still gonna have a lot of

902
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:49,120
people that would still say that oh

903
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,480
they're it's all just their lies it's

904
00:31:54,149 --> 00:31:52,799
all a big smoke and mirrors but i think

905
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:54,159
a greater majority of people are gonna

906
00:32:01,029 --> 00:31:57,279
see that and go huh okay well

907
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,039
we can check that one off of the list uh

908
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:04,080
and i think it's uh yeah it's certainly

909
00:32:07,909 --> 00:32:05,519
it gives

910
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:07,919
it's nice because though we the public

911
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,519
don't necessarily get to ask those

912
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,519
follow-up questions in these hearing

913
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:14,080
settings lawmakers do and so i'm sure a

914
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:17,120
lot of us there's a lot of questions uh

915
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:18,240
you know

916
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:20,000
after the preliminary report was

917
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:21,360
released i'm sure a lot of people had a

918
00:32:24,470 --> 00:32:22,960
lot of questions a lot of follow-up that

919
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:24,480
we'd like you know they're right in

920
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,080
there the uh to some degree this uh to

921
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,240
understand these uap sightings might

922
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:32,559
require a new understanding of science

923
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:33,840
like you know that's the one i think you

924
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,240
want to raise your hand away

925
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:38,000
can we talk about that like what what

926
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,919
makes you say that

927
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:41,120
and

928
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:46,720
uh you know i think the why would you

929
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,399
say that is those are the questions that

930
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:50,080
you get an opportunity to follow up and

931
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,080
ask in a public hearing setting so i

932
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:54,320
certainly would be all for that

933
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:55,360
um

934
00:33:01,110 --> 00:32:57,519
i just don't see that uh

935
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:01,120
that potential right now

936
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:03,120
i think for me something that was was

937
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:04,799
really evident was in the build-up to

938
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:07,679
the uap task force report there was a

939
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:09,360
groundswell of mainstream media

940
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:11,919
attention especially from a us point of

941
00:33:18,230 --> 00:33:15,679
view where you saw people like lou chris

942
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:18,240
sean cahill and others appearing on on

943
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,240
major networks major breakfast shows

944
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:22,480
talk shows not just in the us but around

945
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,559
the world discussing the subject and

946
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:26,720
that has a great

947
00:33:31,909 --> 00:33:28,880
great uh reaction off the back of it we

948
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,919
saw jj abrams ufo series albeit

949
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,000
disappointing in parts it still raises

950
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:36,000
the profile of the subject demi lovato's

951
00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:39,440
series went on as well so there was a

952
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:41,440
reaction but it was like that spike and

953
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,039
then it went away because the report

954
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:44,960
came out and for the mainstream it

955
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,279
didn't say aliens essentially is what it

956
00:33:51,669 --> 00:33:49,519
boiled down to although if you look into

957
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:51,679
it it didn't not say that

958
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,360
from from our point of view so we we

959
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,679
have this then quieter period where

960
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:57,440
there's less of a mainstream interest

961
00:34:01,990 --> 00:34:00,000
and i think public hearings like you say

962
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,000
c-span if that's a channel in the u.s

963
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:04,080
over in the uk it's like there's the the

964
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,679
parliamentary channels and whatnot that

965
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,360
are really watched but if you had

966
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:09,119
something like that that certainly

967
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:10,879
captures that imagination again doesn't

968
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:12,240
it of the mainstream

969
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,919
sure no i absolutely i think that uh and

970
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:17,280
you bring up a really salient point i'm

971
00:34:19,829 --> 00:34:18,399
glad you brought that up because i

972
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:19,839
wasn't even thinking along those lines

973
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:21,599
which is somewhat embarrassing since i

974
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,119
run a media company

975
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:25,679
because definitely we we had a lot more

976
00:34:29,349 --> 00:34:27,760
traffic when there was a ufo push

977
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:29,359
because people were were anxiously

978
00:34:33,190 --> 00:34:32,159
looking for that information every day

979
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:33,200
and so

980
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:36,079
certainly whenever it it's it's coming

981
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:38,720
into the eyes and you have

982
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,760
uh you have outlets that don't cover it

983
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:43,679
very frequently you know

984
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:45,520
some of them do infrequently the you

985
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:47,200
know the washington post politico the

986
00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:48,399
new york times

987
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:50,560
but but when you have that spread out

988
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:53,760
across the land like that and

989
00:34:57,270 --> 00:34:55,599
particularly when you see

990
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:57,280
because the new york times did that

991
00:35:01,430 --> 00:35:00,320
before um before the release of the odni

992
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:01,440
report

993
00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:03,119
which i was really impressed about is

994
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:05,040
they kind of revealed what the report

995
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:07,920
was going to say generally beforehand it

996
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:09,760
was very consistent with the type of

997
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:11,680
reporting that they do all the time

998
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:13,200
they're very well sourced i mean it's

999
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:15,119
it's a very well again it's the new york

1000
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:17,280
times and so they have great sources and

1001
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,720
everything and they were treating it

1002
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:21,119
very much like they do

1003
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,480
every other national security and

1004
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,240
defense story and getting that

1005
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:26,480
information out there and so

1006
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,040
you know there's there's reams of

1007
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,359
information that assuredly

1008
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:33,040
could potentially come out there when

1009
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,640
you have that mainstream interest

1010
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:36,720
because you know i'm a realist there's

1011
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:39,520
people like the times people people like

1012
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:42,160
the washington post people people

1013
00:35:45,190 --> 00:35:43,119
have

1014
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,200
bureau chiefs in dc you know it's much

1015
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,520
easier for them i've got to work off of

1016
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,280
emails and phones where they can you

1017
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:51,119
know walk up and meet people

1018
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:52,960
face to face and so

1019
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,760
there's potential information that i

1020
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:57,520
would love to see that come out more i'd

1021
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,400
love to see

1022
00:36:00,790 --> 00:36:00,000
national security reporters report on

1023
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:00,800
that

1024
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,560
you know it's definitely one of these

1025
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:06,160
things if there were public hearings

1026
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,359
announced

1027
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:09,440
you know continued

1028
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,079
legislative action that keeps coming up

1029
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:14,400
that pushes it into the mainstream eye

1030
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,800
that pushes it into other news outlets

1031
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:18,960
they push their people to push on to

1032
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:20,480
their sources and everything to get

1033
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:22,079
information so i think

1034
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:24,720
uh there's significant benefit to it

1035
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:26,480
receiving more public attention because

1036
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:28,800
i think for most people

1037
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,680
you know

1038
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:31,680
and i have i've said this with the ufo

1039
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,839
topic in general because i think people

1040
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:35,599
that have followed it

1041
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:38,240
or have at least become very well versed

1042
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:39,839
in it and they study the history and

1043
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:41,440
they realize this is something that has

1044
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,520
kind of been going on for

1045
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:45,440
decades and decades and decades this is

1046
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,640
nothing new

1047
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:48,079
um from

1048
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:49,520
what we see now is this kind of

1049
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,760
relearning process this rediscovery

1050
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:53,520
process because there's a there's

1051
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,359
generations of people

1052
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:57,680
that that say post to blue book who

1053
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:00,480
who've kind of grown up under the

1054
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:03,040
impression that uh ufos really that's

1055
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,760
like you know movies or sci-fi

1056
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:08,160
and you know people maybe see a meteor

1057
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:09,920
they you know they view it more as

1058
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,280
fantasy

1059
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:13,839
and mythology and don't realize that

1060
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:15,920
there still are these very credible

1061
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:17,040
sightings and there's still these

1062
00:37:21,190 --> 00:37:18,560
instances that

1063
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:21,200
defy any kind of explanation

1064
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:22,960
even for institutions like the

1065
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:24,079
department of defense who are

1066
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:25,440
established to

1067
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,960
understand what's going on and flying

1068
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:28,720
around here they need situational

1069
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:29,839
awareness

1070
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,320
and so i think the more attention that's

1071
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:34,320
out there you get you capture those

1072
00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:37,119
people who rediscover this idea that oh

1073
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:39,920
wait really this is real i mean it's

1074
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:41,040
uh you know

1075
00:37:46,310 --> 00:37:43,119
could could perhaps be likened to the to

1076
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,320
finding a the skeletal remains a bigfoot

1077
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:48,560
suddenly we'd all be like wait

1078
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:50,480
hold on you know i just thought that was

1079
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:53,680
a really cool story and we told it and

1080
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:55,839
you know wait that might be real

1081
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,440
for a lot of people i think that goes on

1082
00:38:00,710 --> 00:37:58,720
i mean i've seen that from a lot of

1083
00:38:02,790 --> 00:38:00,720
family and friends uh

1084
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,800
long time family and friends who have

1085
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:04,400
never really paid much attention to it

1086
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:06,560
but they're you know did you read this

1087
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,240
article about fast move or something

1088
00:38:13,270 --> 00:38:09,839
yeah i wrote it

1089
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:13,280
like oh my goodness this is real

1090
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:15,920
you mentioned about increase an increase

1091
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:17,680
in site traffic and i'm sure one thing

1092
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,359
that will do that for you as an article

1093
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,839
by by christopher mellon which has

1094
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:23,359
recently been published on the debrief

1095
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:25,839
website the article is titled why is the

1096
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:28,960
air force a wall on the uap issue

1097
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:30,240
the link for that will be in the

1098
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:31,599
description if you haven't read it

1099
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,680
already it's fantastic and as much

1100
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:36,000
detail as there is in there it's an

1101
00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:37,680
interesting read even if you're not well

1102
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:39,440
versed on the us military christopher

1103
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,640
miller does a very good job in

1104
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:42,000
explaining what he's talking about

1105
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:43,040
within that

1106
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:45,440
early on in the article chris talks

1107
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:47,280
about various different satellite

1108
00:38:51,190 --> 00:38:49,440
systems that are unclassified that he

1109
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,200
can talk about and i'm going to just

1110
00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:53,119
read you a small a small piece that he

1111
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,680
writes after he's listed many of these

1112
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:57,760
different programs are satellites sorry

1113
00:39:01,349 --> 00:39:00,560
and different weapons um sensors and

1114
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:01,359
such

1115
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,440
how is this possible in light of the us

1116
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:05,359
air force's global responsibility for

1117
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:07,359
aerospace defense and its massive air

1118
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,520
and space surveillance capabilities are

1119
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:11,520
we to believe that the us air force did

1120
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,240
not detect any uaps from 2004 until 2021

1121
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,320
this lapse in u.s air force reporting

1122
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:20,240
raises doubts about the credibility of

1123
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:22,720
the air force on the uap issue and its

1124
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,200
responsiveness to civilian oversight

1125
00:39:29,829 --> 00:39:27,040
as chris mellon essentially at that

1126
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,839
point calling out the us air force

1127
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,440
yeah no

1128
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,119
first of all you know

1129
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,760
uh big kudos to chris you know chris

1130
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:38,160
chris chris authored that entire art

1131
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:40,640
article and put all that work into it

1132
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:43,680
and he mentioned working on this um

1133
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:45,040
months ago and mentioned it was

1134
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,480
something that he wanted to do and we'll

1135
00:39:49,589 --> 00:39:48,720
be interested in publishing it

1136
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:49,599
and

1137
00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:51,200
absolutely you know it's definitely

1138
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,000
interesting and big kudos to micah hanks

1139
00:39:58,069 --> 00:39:56,160
who was the editor of that you know a

1140
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,079
lot of work editors never get any good

1141
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:00,720
credit uh but they put significant

1142
00:40:04,870 --> 00:40:03,520
amount of work into it and uh you know

1143
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:04,880
it's at the end of the day it's micah

1144
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:07,280
who makes that decision that uh

1145
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:10,160
we included all of that information that

1146
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,680
was one of the things i was very happy

1147
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:13,760
that we were able to to publish it

1148
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:16,079
because i know just from experience and

1149
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,200
working with other outlets you know

1150
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:19,920
there was it was like an 8 500 word

1151
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:21,839
article almost 9 000 word article

1152
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:24,160
there's not many outlets that are going

1153
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:26,640
to let that go

1154
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,119
but i felt like everything that he put

1155
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,359
in there and even laying out

1156
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:33,440
all of these capabilities

1157
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:35,520
and he was good it was good information

1158
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:36,560
it's good information people don't

1159
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:38,560
realize but it makes that point that he

1160
00:40:42,950 --> 00:40:41,440
was his overarching point

1161
00:40:43,829 --> 00:40:42,960
that uh

1162
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:43,839
yeah

1163
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:47,040
it's virtually impossible

1164
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:48,640
that the air force would not be

1165
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:50,960
detecting this stuff it is virtually

1166
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,119
impossible that they would not have more

1167
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:55,760
information on this because they are the

1168
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:57,520
branch of the service that is supposed

1169
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,920
to be equipped to handle this

1170
00:41:02,309 --> 00:41:00,800
and

1171
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:02,319
their silence

1172
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:05,119
for the last four years on this has been

1173
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:07,119
deafening it has been

1174
00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:08,960
uh mystifying

1175
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:11,119
you know i i share in some of his

1176
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,680
sentiments of being flabbergasted

1177
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,880
um

1178
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:16,800
that you haven't had

1179
00:41:22,790 --> 00:41:19,200
anything coming out of the air force

1180
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:22,800
period and uh you know i certainly

1181
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:25,200
haven't uh i haven't come across some of

1182
00:41:27,670 --> 00:41:26,480
the information that he shared in that

1183
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:27,680
article

1184
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:29,760
directly so you know he mentioned the

1185
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:33,119
fact that air force pilots and officers

1186
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:35,599
and airmen were had you know have been

1187
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:37,760
warned and threatened don't

1188
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:39,359
don't talk to people don't do this don't

1189
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,400
do that

1190
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,319
um i certainly

1191
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,160
i hadn't heard that directly but that

1192
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,280
makes perfect sense because uh you know

1193
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:48,960
i've had the opportunity to talk to a

1194
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,040
lot of people from a lot of different

1195
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,640
branches and uh you know there are

1196
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:56,400
people who reach out to me and contact

1197
00:42:01,270 --> 00:41:57,280
me

1198
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:01,280
uh the air force is one that i zero

1199
00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:02,640
nobody

1200
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:08,160
whatsoever nothing absolute silence um

1201
00:42:15,030 --> 00:42:11,760
and so that certainly makes sense and i

1202
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:15,040
think he he's spot on in saying that it

1203
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:16,440
is

1204
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,480
the biggest capabilities of it and

1205
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:22,560
frankly if we're talking about this this

1206
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,079
topic uh

1207
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:25,920
should have the most vested interest in

1208
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:26,640
it

1209
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:29,280
a has been totally silent and b has been

1210
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,400
allowed to be totally silent on it and

1211
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,400
uh

1212
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:37,280
i i wish i had a good explanation for

1213
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:39,280
that

1214
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:40,960
i mean when you read the article it

1215
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:42,880
certainly comes across like chris is

1216
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:44,720
very much tongue-in-cheek you know

1217
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:46,000
telling the

1218
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:47,520
the us air force you know you're lying

1219
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:48,800
about this and

1220
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:50,319
it's almost like when you talk to a

1221
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,839
child that you know they're lying well i

1222
00:42:55,510 --> 00:42:53,440
can't believe that you didn't do this

1223
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:55,520
when you know for a fact and i'm sure

1224
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:57,280
that's that's probably a good place to

1225
00:43:02,230 --> 00:42:59,359
come from with us i want to ask you

1226
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,240
though tim two scenarios um which do you

1227
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:04,480
lean more towards scenario one the us

1228
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:07,119
air force know nothing and can't say i

1229
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:08,160
don't know

1230
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:10,000
about this subject and they won't admit

1231
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,160
their feeling and their duty or scenario

1232
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:14,800
number two they know everything

1233
00:43:19,990 --> 00:43:17,760
and they're keeping us in the dark

1234
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:20,000
um

1235
00:43:23,270 --> 00:43:21,599
could i get

1236
00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:23,280
could i go with like a scenario three

1237
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:25,200
which is they know much more

1238
00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,079
keeping us in the dark i don't know

1239
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,319
i i won't go all the way out and say

1240
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,400
they know everything because i i don't

1241
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:34,079
know that um

1242
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:35,599
but i

1243
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,400
i certainly

1244
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:40,800
do believe that they know considerably

1245
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:43,520
more than they have uh

1246
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,440
then they're letting on or that they

1247
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,800
would like to

1248
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,480
um

1249
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:50,160
lead people to believe and i think chris

1250
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:52,079
you're right you know that scolding kind

1251
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,200
of uh

1252
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:55,680
approach he he's accurate in that in

1253
00:43:59,109 --> 00:43:57,839
that come on you know

1254
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,119
you know you're gonna tell me you don't

1255
00:44:02,550 --> 00:44:01,040
know anything that's bs you know how

1256
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:02,560
does the navy know something how does

1257
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:03,680
the coast guard know something how do

1258
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:04,880
these other people know something you

1259
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:07,200
don't know nothing there's no way

1260
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:08,720
uh and so

1261
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,200
there certainly is at least enough there

1262
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,280
any kind of abductive logic using with

1263
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,200
the information we we do know to say

1264
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:17,119
that the air force knows a lot more than

1265
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:18,560
they're letting on

1266
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:20,000
uh

1267
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:22,720
and so the question really i guess the

1268
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:24,720
biggest question here is

1269
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:26,079
why

1270
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:28,240
and and so when i say that i don't know

1271
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:31,440
that that's the part that is mysterious

1272
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:32,720
but uh

1273
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:35,920
i certainly think that uh i certainly

1274
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,720
think there's other components i i know

1275
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:40,560
that there's other components within

1276
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,520
government who know more about this

1277
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,599
particular subject they know more about

1278
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,599
uap they've either encountered it or

1279
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,200
collected data

1280
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:51,599
at times inadvertently so you know

1281
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:52,720
they're doing something totally

1282
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,160
different they're like oh man we just

1283
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:56,319
picked this up i know there are other

1284
00:44:59,910 --> 00:44:57,920
components uh

1285
00:45:00,870 --> 00:44:59,920
that are that exist that

1286
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:00,880
uh

1287
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:03,040
have existed and that information exist

1288
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:04,400
outside of the

1289
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,319
what uh you know atip or osap or even

1290
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:12,160
the task force worked on you know that

1291
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:16,790
maybe you'll ask me about this maybe

1292
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:18,240
it's a viewer question i'm surprised if

1293
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:20,000
it wasn't because i'd mentioned a few

1294
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:22,000
weeks ago maybe a month ago about

1295
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:24,079
anti-neutrinos you know people were

1296
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:25,839
talking about this idea of

1297
00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:27,040
luring

1298
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:30,400
uap in and i just kind of mentioned uh

1299
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:32,160
you know the the anti-neutrino study

1300
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,599
done by uh

1301
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:35,280
the geospatial intelligence might be a

1302
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,720
good idea

1303
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,119
and that that comes from information

1304
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:41,440
that comes from outside of the

1305
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:43,359
atip purview let's say so the the

1306
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,359
elizondo and the

1307
00:45:50,069 --> 00:45:47,760
you know the bass people maybe the the

1308
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:50,079
the usual suspects let's say that that

1309
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:51,440
comes out of that

1310
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,319
um

1311
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:54,480
it comes out of it far enough that uh

1312
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:56,240
you know i have

1313
00:46:00,550 --> 00:45:57,760
on background or behind the scenes ask

1314
00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:00,560
some of those guys i've asked elizondo

1315
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:03,280
about does auntie neutrinos play into it

1316
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:04,079
and

1317
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:06,480
he seemed to legitimately you know

1318
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,839
express that it wasn't something that

1319
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,680
was involved in what they were doing at

1320
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:11,920
atip and everything so i know there is

1321
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:13,200
other

1322
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,800
things that come out

1323
00:46:21,270 --> 00:46:18,160
and so it's

1324
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:21,280
the air force becomes the most obscene

1325
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:23,280
that's that's being silent

1326
00:46:27,990 --> 00:46:24,880
but they're

1327
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:28,000
not by a long shot the only one that is

1328
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:29,839
being silent

1329
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,839
and anti-neutrinos for anyone wondering

1330
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:33,599
why i'm not following that up straight

1331
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,599
away as part of the conversation but

1332
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:37,119
i'll get to that in just a few minutes

1333
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,800
all right um

1334
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:40,720
no no no just that i moved that around a

1335
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,319
little bit because i felt it was best to

1336
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:44,640
go into chris's article at the moment um

1337
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:47,280
something else chris mentioned was that

1338
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:48,079
uh

1339
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:50,480
many unclassified systems their their

1340
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,960
force has at its disposal in particular

1341
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:55,040
he talks about systems that can track

1342
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:57,280
icbms intercontinental ballistic

1343
00:47:01,750 --> 00:46:59,680
missiles aimed at the united states and

1344
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:01,760
he asks again did none of these pick up

1345
00:47:07,750 --> 00:47:05,359
the objects from the 2004 nimitz event

1346
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:07,760
if these had picked them up tim and the

1347
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:09,520
us air force with these systems were

1348
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:12,000
aware of the nimitz event which remember

1349
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:13,760
happened over what seven to ten days it

1350
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:14,880
wasn't a

1351
00:47:19,030 --> 00:47:16,720
forever encounter or something and that

1352
00:47:20,549 --> 00:47:19,040
was it it happened over over a week

1353
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:20,559
what do you think the air force was

1354
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:22,720
doing with this data as they get it

1355
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:25,599
simply observing are they monitoring or

1356
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:27,200
are they turning off the monitors and

1357
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:28,960
looking the other way

1358
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,640
you know

1359
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:32,800
i wish that i had a good

1360
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:34,319
answer for that

1361
00:47:39,750 --> 00:47:36,880
and i go back and forth on my personal

1362
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:39,760
opinion of it from from

1363
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:42,160
thinking that either there is uh

1364
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,359
significant uh just naivety or there's

1365
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:46,800
just uh

1366
00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:49,680
i i've often called it just you know

1367
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,720
willfully oblivion oblivion a little

1368
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,440
willful apathy towards it where it's

1369
00:47:59,790 --> 00:47:57,200
kind of just look the other way and

1370
00:48:01,829 --> 00:47:59,800
pretend it's not there uh whether that's

1371
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:01,839
institutionalized it's just kind of the

1372
00:48:07,430 --> 00:48:04,800
the culture in the organization type

1373
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,440
thing to some degree i think

1374
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:09,520
they're you're going to see some of that

1375
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,040
and so you know you can pick up

1376
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:12,720
something it's like i have been told

1377
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:14,640
that is not real i will keep looking the

1378
00:48:21,510 --> 00:48:19,040
other way um i think that's that's true

1379
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:21,520
but then i go back and forth and go what

1380
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,240
are they doing you know it goes i guess

1381
00:48:29,430 --> 00:48:26,960
it goes back into something we talked

1382
00:48:30,230 --> 00:48:29,440
about early on about how do you handle

1383
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:30,240
uh

1384
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:32,079
the big secrets and especially how do

1385
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:34,400
you handle a big secret that

1386
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:35,760
you view

1387
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:37,920
as being completely vulnerable to and

1388
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,480
defenseless to when your business is

1389
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:42,000
defense

1390
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:44,240
how do you manage that secret

1391
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:47,040
how do you handle that and

1392
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:50,079
could the does the potential exist out

1393
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:53,040
there that uh the air force or some kind

1394
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:55,200
of carve out of it um

1395
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,200
you know recognizes that these things

1396
00:49:02,870 --> 00:48:59,280
are real events recognizes that this is

1397
00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:02,880
uh persistently going on but views it in

1398
00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:05,280
that they're defenseless to it and

1399
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:08,720
frankly doesn't know what it is doing

1400
00:49:13,030 --> 00:49:10,880
why you know so now now we're acting on

1401
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:13,040
the hypothesis that this is inhuman or

1402
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,040
this is something other

1403
00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:17,599
um what is it doing

1404
00:49:22,150 --> 00:49:20,240
and if you can't answer that you know

1405
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:22,160
from a defense perspective you start

1406
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:24,079
doing the checklist you know i know a

1407
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:26,000
lot of people think well it's here to

1408
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:27,920
make us peace love and happy and they're

1409
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:29,280
here so we don't blow each other with

1410
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:30,400
nuclear weapons

1411
00:49:33,750 --> 00:49:32,079
they really didn't do any you know they

1412
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:33,760
haven't stopped that they certainly

1413
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,240
didn't stop us when we uh you know

1414
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:37,920
killed

1415
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:39,280
thousands of innocent people with a

1416
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:40,720
nuclear weapon and they haven't stopped

1417
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:42,160
when we've

1418
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:44,319
destroyed our environment by testing

1419
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:45,839
them all the time so

1420
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:47,599
that doesn't seem there's no evidence

1421
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:48,640
for that

1422
00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:51,920
uh so what are they doing and so is this

1423
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:54,800
idea does the potential exist can you

1424
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:57,119
conclusively rule and take it off the

1425
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,800
table that this is not something that's

1426
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:01,760
doing uh pre-battlefield intelligence

1427
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:03,599
you know the same thing we do

1428
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:06,240
before you go into war you you

1429
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,680
make sure you got everything about the

1430
00:50:11,190 --> 00:50:09,359
terrain everything about the combatants

1431
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,200
everything that you can about it before

1432
00:50:17,109 --> 00:50:13,520
you go engage in a conflict you know is

1433
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:17,119
that what's going on um you know i don't

1434
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:18,720
there's no evidence for that either but

1435
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,240
at the same time if you don't know

1436
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:22,319
what's going on is it something that you

1437
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:24,319
can completely remove off the table i

1438
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:27,280
would say no and so just based on that

1439
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:30,079
alone do you

1440
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:33,040
engage in this kind of uh long-running

1441
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:35,200
systemic secrecy

1442
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:38,960
maybe you know maybe yeah it's

1443
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,480
as long as it's an unknown i think it

1444
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:42,400
would be reckless for anybody to to

1445
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:46,400
outwardly say what is or isn't true um

1446
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:48,640
at least in the parameters of

1447
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:50,160
plausibility

1448
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:52,559
if that makes sense

1449
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:54,160
we hear about so many things within

1450
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:56,640
organizations where at the highest level

1451
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,359
something untoward has been going on

1452
00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:01,440
um maybe it's been you know systematic

1453
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,280
bullying or whatever it may be you know

1454
00:51:07,270 --> 00:51:04,800
there's so many things but

1455
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:07,280
if you're directly below that level that

1456
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:09,920
you can't influence what happens but for

1457
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:11,520
your own sake and for your own role and

1458
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:13,520
job you you allow it to happen you

1459
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:14,800
ignore it

1460
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:16,319
there's that possibility that's what's

1461
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:17,680
happening here with the air force in the

1462
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,760
sense that we know there's something we

1463
00:51:24,309 --> 00:51:21,839
can't do anything about it it massively

1464
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,319
weakens us and makes us look poorer so

1465
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:26,720
what we can do is just turn the other

1466
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,359
cheek and let it go on until it does

1467
00:51:33,510 --> 00:51:31,359
directly affect us

1468
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,520
sure no i and

1469
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:35,440
uh yeah absolutely you know down to the

1470
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,000
fact that i i think i've said that

1471
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:40,640
out of all of the idea of there being

1472
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:44,000
crashed ufo recovery and roswell being

1473
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,520
real the most plausible scenario i ever

1474
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:49,359
heard was and it was one i never

1475
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,400
considered before was this idea that uh

1476
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:54,240
yes something could have crashed let's

1477
00:51:56,790 --> 00:51:55,599
say roswell yes something could have

1478
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:56,800
been recovered

1479
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:00,400
but it's uh it its technology was so far

1480
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:04,880
beyond our understanding that we simply

1481
00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:06,640
couldn't figure it out and so you're

1482
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:08,800
looking at it from the perspective of i

1483
00:52:14,710 --> 00:52:12,640
could spend my entire defense budget

1484
00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:14,720
trying to figure this out and i'm still

1485
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:16,839
not going to be any closer than i was

1486
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:19,520
beforehand and meanwhile life goes on

1487
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,520
the world goes on you you've got you

1488
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:23,440
know if you put it in modern perspective

1489
00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:25,760
you've got this potential and threat of

1490
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:27,760
war in ukraine right now between russia

1491
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:28,880
there's a lot of

1492
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,559
and you realize if i dump my whole

1493
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,640
defense budget into figuring this out

1494
00:52:38,549 --> 00:52:36,400
and am no closer

1495
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:38,559
meanwhile my potential near pure

1496
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:40,480
adversaries russia china they're

1497
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:42,400
building bombs they're building planes

1498
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:43,920
they're building aircraft carriers that

1499
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,440
can be used against me so i'm actually

1500
00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:47,359
going to put myself in a more vulnerable

1501
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:49,599
position so we're just going to box that

1502
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:50,559
up

1503
00:52:53,589 --> 00:52:52,000
we're going to put it in the archives

1504
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:53,599
you know like like raiders of the lost

1505
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,640
ark

1506
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,640
and we're going to check

1507
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:58,480
you know every

1508
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:00,800
how many ever decades and try to see you

1509
00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:03,280
know where are we where is our science

1510
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:05,040
where is our level of understanding in

1511
00:53:09,349 --> 00:53:07,200
our at a position now we can better

1512
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:09,359
understand this or make use of it if

1513
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:11,760
we're not we're going to box it back up

1514
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,960
that doesn't sound crazy to me

1515
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:16,800
you know maybe people

1516
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,280
uh would think that uh

1517
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:21,200
you know the air force or the government

1518
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:22,880
or whoever would run out and you know

1519
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:25,920
look at this alien body everybody ah i'm

1520
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:29,119
not so sure especially if you don't know

1521
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:30,800
anything

1522
00:53:34,790 --> 00:53:32,400
if you're like i don't know who this is

1523
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:34,800
what this is and what the intent is

1524
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:35,599
um

1525
00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:38,559
that's that's a scary position to be in

1526
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:39,920
especially when you're talking about

1527
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:41,839
governments and institutions

1528
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:43,920
built on public faith trust you know we

1529
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:46,640
put considerable faith and trust into

1530
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:48,960
our governments to care for our welfare

1531
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:51,119
and if they come out and say i mean

1532
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:53,200
that's crazy guys i don't we ain't got a

1533
00:53:59,349 --> 00:53:56,800
clue here i think it um even if it's

1534
00:54:02,150 --> 00:53:59,359
implicitly it erodes our faith in that

1535
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:02,160
government we're less likely to put

1536
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:04,800
faith in government then and so it's

1537
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:06,400
what you the scenario you presented

1538
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:07,920
there

1539
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:11,040
i think is is very plausible i mean i i

1540
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:13,119
know it is because that's in interviews

1541
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:14,880
when i i spoke to

1542
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:16,640
people like uh former secretary of the

1543
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:18,720
navy ray mabus you know that was i asked

1544
00:54:21,910 --> 00:54:20,480
him you know when he told me yeah this

1545
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:21,920
stuff happens you know they have these

1546
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,040
weird sightings he knew about the

1547
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:25,359
roosevelt he knew about these incidents

1548
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:27,680
and he's like the military folks just

1549
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:29,839
never really gave an explanation they

1550
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:32,640
never they were just yeah we don't know

1551
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:34,160
and i was like did you never want to

1552
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:35,760
follow up on that

1553
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:37,280
you never say well damn it no you're

1554
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:38,400
gonna find out

1555
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:39,920
and he was like you know

1556
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:42,160
my my bandwidth for stuff that i had to

1557
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:45,440
deal with was was limited and you've got

1558
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:48,319
so much going on when i talked to the

1559
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:51,119
uh the advisors for this uh secretary of

1560
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:53,440
defense mattis who had been briefed by

1561
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:55,040
louis elizondo

1562
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:56,640
and you know

1563
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:58,400
they legitimately were like no i trust

1564
00:55:01,510 --> 00:54:59,359
the information they were saying was

1565
00:55:03,349 --> 00:55:01,520
real you know this is not some big

1566
00:55:05,670 --> 00:55:03,359
larp or whatever they're like no this

1567
00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:05,680
really happened inside professional

1568
00:55:11,190 --> 00:55:08,799
settings inside uh real official

1569
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:11,200
areas and they were like but man we had

1570
00:55:14,710 --> 00:55:13,040
so much going on at the time and the

1571
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:14,720
ufos weren't attacking us and they

1572
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:16,480
weren't posing a risk

1573
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,359
where as we we did have real real world

1574
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:21,839
risk that that we had to mitigate and so

1575
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:24,480
yeah i think that that uh

1576
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:26,880
that absolutely that scenario absolutely

1577
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:28,319
exists

1578
00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,640
that roswell scenario of having the the

1579
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:32,480
technology crash that you have no idea

1580
00:55:36,470 --> 00:55:34,559
what it where to even begin it reminds

1581
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:36,480
me of that advert that went viral a few

1582
00:55:40,150 --> 00:55:37,839
years ago where

1583
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:40,160
a daughter buys our elderly father i

1584
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:41,680
think it is like an ipad but he doesn't

1585
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:43,599
know what the ipad is for

1586
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,960
and she's coming around in the kitchen

1587
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:46,319
one day and he's using it as a chopping

1588
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,920
board and it

1589
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:49,680
takes the vegetables off it and rinses

1590
00:55:53,670 --> 00:55:51,440
it under the sink and he's oh this is

1591
00:55:55,349 --> 00:55:53,680
great for this use and is that where we

1592
00:55:57,270 --> 00:55:55,359
were potentially at when this this

1593
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,280
saucer crashes if that's what it was and

1594
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:59,280
we look and go where's the control

1595
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:01,200
panels where's the exhaust where's the

1596
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,920
windows where's the door there isn't any

1597
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:05,760
let's just put it away in a box and like

1598
00:56:10,230 --> 00:56:07,760
you say well indiana jones for it when

1599
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:10,240
it's in an archive somewhere

1600
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:12,480
and you can't spin the amount of effort

1601
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:14,480
and time into figuring something like

1602
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:15,680
that out

1603
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:20,319
public size pretty well

1604
00:56:23,349 --> 00:56:21,760
but you can't keep that out of your

1605
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,359
adversary's eyes

1606
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:25,359
and i you know i've used the example of

1607
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,200
the atomic bomb

1608
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:29,440
uh you know here is the most destructive

1609
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:30,559
weapon that

1610
00:56:35,190 --> 00:56:32,960
has ever been known by mankind

1611
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:35,200
so destructive that you know full-scale

1612
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:37,119
nuclear war amongst countries could in

1613
00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:38,880
the world we could cause our own

1614
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:40,079
extinction

1615
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,280
so

1616
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:43,599
there's not really anything we can know

1617
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:45,440
of and can think of that should be more

1618
00:56:50,950 --> 00:56:48,160
controlled or that you wouldn't want

1619
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,960
potential adversaries possessing but yet

1620
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:52,319
you know if you look at the atomic

1621
00:56:58,470 --> 00:56:56,240
weapon uh the russians were already

1622
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,480
had already been able to steal atomic

1623
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:00,079
secrets and kind of had an idea of the

1624
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:02,000
bomb being built before it was ever

1625
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:04,160
dropped you know before going back a

1626
00:57:08,309 --> 00:57:07,119
year before 1945 and so it wasn't long

1627
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:08,319
after before

1628
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:09,760
we saw the soviet union has their own

1629
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:11,119
nuclear weapons and now you have all

1630
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:13,040
this and so yeah when you put that much

1631
00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:14,400
effort into it you've also got to

1632
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:16,400
recognize that you're going

1633
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:17,839
the potential is that somebody else

1634
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:21,359
figures it out first and uh

1635
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:23,359
you know are they going to weaponize it

1636
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:24,720
this type of thing

1637
00:57:28,470 --> 00:57:26,559
there's a lot of things that i imagine

1638
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:28,480
go through defense leaders minds in a

1639
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:30,400
scenario like that

1640
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:32,880
i'm curious on your thoughts tim chris

1641
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,760
mellon repeatedly goes back to in any of

1642
00:57:39,910 --> 00:57:37,920
his conversations or on the news on

1643
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:39,920
documentaries and talking head pieces

1644
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:42,880
and articles the the possibility of some

1645
00:57:46,950 --> 00:57:44,240
of these objects being of an

1646
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:46,960
extraterrestrial origin however

1647
00:57:51,670 --> 00:57:49,280
louella's ondo more and more seems to

1648
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:51,680
talk about objects of non-human origin

1649
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:53,920
being potentially from other dimensions

1650
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:57,200
other realities potentially being based

1651
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:59,680
here based based on earth somewhere in

1652
00:58:02,950 --> 00:58:01,520
some way shape or form

1653
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:02,960
is this deliberate do you think that

1654
00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:05,520
they both go down these routes

1655
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:07,839
but they both seem to have obviously

1656
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:10,799
alternative views on what this could be

1657
00:58:13,109 --> 00:58:11,599
sure

1658
00:58:15,750 --> 00:58:13,119
and i definitely don't want to speak on

1659
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:15,760
behalf of chris or lou

1660
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:18,640
but i think that uh that's very common

1661
00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:20,400
not just with them but but any of the

1662
00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:22,240
major players you might say so any of

1663
00:58:25,990 --> 00:58:24,160
the well-known people you know gary

1664
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:26,000
nolan eric davis these people i think

1665
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:27,040
when

1666
00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:27,839
you know

1667
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:29,680
they're certainly past the point where

1668
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:31,839
they believe that these events are real

1669
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:33,280
that these objects are real these are

1670
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:34,160
real

1671
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:42,640
know a lot of people believe that that's

1672
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:44,720
uh that's not true you know that the

1673
00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:46,720
government or somebody whether it's

1674
00:58:49,829 --> 00:58:48,400
mj-12 or whatever knows everything

1675
00:58:52,150 --> 00:58:49,839
they've made the secret treaty with the

1676
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:52,160
grays and all of this but i think you

1677
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:53,520
know when you look at the fact that

1678
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:56,000
there when we get to what exactly does

1679
00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:57,680
this represent that we see differences

1680
00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,000
of opinion and people like lou and chris

1681
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:01,680
i think that really demonstrates that no

1682
00:59:06,309 --> 00:59:03,760
i don't know that we're there i don't

1683
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,319
know that anybody has that

1684
00:59:10,069 --> 00:59:08,400
final answer

1685
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:10,079
this is what it is this is where it

1686
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:11,680
comes from this is how it does what it

1687
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,559
does

1688
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:14,799
i don't know that anyone has that and so

1689
00:59:19,190 --> 00:59:17,520
it leaves into this last well you know

1690
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,200
what are your what what is the most

1691
00:59:23,750 --> 00:59:21,359
plausible or what theory do you believe

1692
00:59:25,430 --> 00:59:23,760
is most likely and so you know i think

1693
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:25,440
for chris uh

1694
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:26,960
uh based on his comments that would be

1695
00:59:33,589 --> 00:59:31,040
extraterrestrial lou maybe it you know

1696
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:33,599
it could it's something other than

1697
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:36,880
extraterrestrial i think it's uh

1698
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:38,480
at the same time i think all of the

1699
00:59:42,549 --> 00:59:39,599
terms they've used are kind of

1700
00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:42,559
synonymous because it's if it's not

1701
00:59:46,309 --> 00:59:44,079
human and it's not then it's

1702
00:59:48,549 --> 00:59:46,319
extraterrestrial and it's not us it's

1703
00:59:50,069 --> 00:59:48,559
it's all one in the same even if it was

1704
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,079
interdimensionals i think we could make

1705
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:51,839
the point well that's still alien

1706
00:59:55,030 --> 00:59:54,079
they're still coming from an alien land

1707
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:55,040
um

1708
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:56,079
and so

1709
00:59:59,349 --> 00:59:58,160
i don't i wouldn't say i've never got

1710
01:00:02,390 --> 00:59:59,359
the feeling that

1711
01:00:04,470 --> 01:00:02,400
that represents that one of them or any

1712
01:00:06,789 --> 01:00:04,480
one person's kind of uh

1713
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:06,799
conclusion to what it is is more correct

1714
01:00:13,030 --> 01:00:08,160
than the other

1715
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:15,750
tim you uh caused a little bit of a

1716
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:18,160
twitter star or storm um when you

1717
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:19,839
dropped in like you mentioned earlier it

1718
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:22,319
was a bit of a thread that was going on

1719
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,480
talking about uep baiting and how these

1720
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:26,640
things may be attracted and and i think

1721
01:00:30,390 --> 01:00:28,640
you dropped in a little bomb of perhaps

1722
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,400
a good place to start and tying in some

1723
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,640
of the threads of ufo coaxing would be

1724
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:34,559
to look into the national geospatial

1725
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,280
intelligence agency's 2015 global

1726
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,520
mapping of anti-neutrinos i mean that

1727
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:41,520
rolls off the tongue and if you're just

1728
01:00:45,109 --> 01:00:42,799
putting that one straight off the top of

1729
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:45,119
your head that's amazing um for folks

1730
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,319
who don't know what's an anti-neutrino

1731
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,119
sure anti-neutrino is just a byproduct

1732
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:53,760
of a neutrino so it's the opposite of a

1733
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:56,400
neutrino and uh in in the context that i

1734
01:00:59,910 --> 01:00:58,160
was kind of mentioning it i mean you you

1735
01:01:01,750 --> 01:00:59,920
see you have anti-neutrinos and anything

1736
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:01,760
that you have radiation so you've got

1737
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:03,200
radiation you've got

1738
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:05,040
both neutrinos and then anti-neutrinos

1739
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:07,920
but then they're also a byproduct of um

1740
01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,280
radioactive processes um you know like

1741
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:13,359
nuclear reactors so

1742
01:01:17,829 --> 01:01:16,000
nuclear submarines or nuclear bombs that

1743
01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:17,839
type of thing and uh

1744
01:01:22,390 --> 01:01:20,319
anything anything that's that's nuclear

1745
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:22,400
like that uh anything that's radioactive

1746
01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:24,720
is gonna likewise give off neutrinos and

1747
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:26,240
anti-neutrinos

1748
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:27,359
and so

1749
01:01:32,630 --> 01:01:30,319
that is my very uh rudimentary

1750
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:32,640
definition there because i will caveat

1751
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:34,400
i'm not a physicist

1752
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:35,920
people like me definitely appreciate

1753
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:37,280
that yeah

1754
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:41,040
that 2015 map shows reactors large

1755
01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:43,359
potassium deposits all things that we

1756
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,240
hear may potentially attract uap i would

1757
01:01:51,349 --> 01:01:48,960
ask would nuclear-powered navy fleets

1758
01:01:53,510 --> 01:01:51,359
also give off anti-neutrinos

1759
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:53,520
sure yeah and that's uh the the idea of

1760
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:55,760
detecting anti-neutrinos

1761
01:02:00,630 --> 01:01:58,880
uh has been something that uh has been

1762
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,640
really on the forefront and on the

1763
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:02,559
cutting edge of the defense research

1764
01:02:07,029 --> 01:02:04,960
world's mind for a number of years you

1765
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:07,039
know let's say the last 10 years

1766
01:02:12,390 --> 01:02:10,079
because the the potential exists for

1767
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:12,400
both intelligence purposes nuclear

1768
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:14,799
proliferation you know it's a byproduct

1769
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:15,839
of

1770
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:17,760
you know developing if you develop a

1771
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:18,960
nuclear bomb you're going to be given

1772
01:02:22,710 --> 01:02:20,880
off anti-neutrinos and so the ability to

1773
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:22,720
detect that at range and over the

1774
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:25,680
horizon is a huge capability because now

1775
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:29,200
you have an idea of you know has

1776
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:31,440
has iran developed a nuclear weapon we

1777
01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:34,400
now know uh in addition to the fact that

1778
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,640
uh to mention with nuclear submarines

1779
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:38,480
you know if you can detect that the

1780
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,480
because the object with these subs and

1781
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:42,160
they continue to get quite more quiet

1782
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:44,720
and quiet and these stealth subs uh it

1783
01:02:49,750 --> 01:02:46,960
becomes harder to detect uh

1784
01:02:50,950 --> 01:02:49,760
subs by our traditional means and so

1785
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:50,960
this idea that you could detect

1786
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:53,520
anti-neutrinos uh not only would you

1787
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:54,799
have to detect those cells you could

1788
01:02:59,270 --> 01:02:56,720
basically follow them around like you

1789
01:03:01,829 --> 01:02:59,280
know from afar from your satellites

1790
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:01,839
and so there's been a significant amount

1791
01:03:05,589 --> 01:03:03,119
of work

1792
01:03:07,029 --> 01:03:05,599
not published very limitedly you know

1793
01:03:08,549 --> 01:03:07,039
published work

1794
01:03:11,349 --> 01:03:08,559
um

1795
01:03:13,670 --> 01:03:11,359
on the the the idea of trying to track

1796
01:03:15,670 --> 01:03:13,680
down anti-neutrinos or or

1797
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:15,680
developing devices that can

1798
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:18,000
can detect and track anti-neutrinos in

1799
01:03:21,109 --> 01:03:19,440
the defense world

1800
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:21,119
and really kind of hitting its peak

1801
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:24,720
around that 2015-16 time frame when uh

1802
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:26,960
geospatial intelligence did their

1803
01:03:32,230 --> 01:03:30,079
neutrino mapping

1804
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:32,240
where do you sit and what have you heard

1805
01:03:36,710 --> 01:03:33,680
tim on

1806
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:36,720
the navy or or otherwise using

1807
01:03:40,549 --> 01:03:38,079
potentially

1808
01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:40,559
nuclear materials just for lack of a

1809
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:43,760
better term to to attract or or bait or

1810
01:03:48,549 --> 01:03:46,400
coax uaps

1811
01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:48,559
you know i have heard that you know i

1812
01:03:51,910 --> 01:03:49,920
think i published that in an article

1813
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:51,920
that uh you know that i have been told

1814
01:03:55,190 --> 01:03:54,319
that the the use of

1815
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:55,200
uh

1816
01:04:01,589 --> 01:03:58,480
nuclear assets to attract or bait them

1817
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,599
now whether that is

1818
01:04:05,430 --> 01:04:03,839
by intentional operational plan meaning

1819
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:05,440
that you know hey we're going to bring

1820
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,880
out all these nuclear assets and bait

1821
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:08,640
them in or whether it is hey we've got a

1822
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:10,960
lot of nuclear assets already going out

1823
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:13,839
to do workups or whatever let's go out

1824
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:15,280
with our detectors and see what we can

1825
01:04:18,789 --> 01:04:17,200
find i don't know that but i do know

1826
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:18,799
that that the idea of using the

1827
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:21,039
potential for nuclear

1828
01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:23,839
powered uh defense devices you know

1829
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:26,960
aircraft carriers submarines to

1830
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:29,680
to enhance your ability to capture uh

1831
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,520
uap i know that that that's something

1832
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:33,839
that uh

1833
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:36,000
several people have said going back into

1834
01:04:39,430 --> 01:04:38,240
the a-tip days when uh louis elizondo

1835
01:04:40,549 --> 01:04:39,440
was there that that was something that

1836
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:40,559
was definitely

1837
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:42,799
looked into an exercise

1838
01:04:45,750 --> 01:04:43,920
um

1839
01:04:47,029 --> 01:04:45,760
when i mentioned this anti-neutrino

1840
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:47,039
mapping that's why i'm glad you're glad

1841
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:48,880
you brought it up i mean that's why i've

1842
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:51,839
jumped into it early in fact is because

1843
01:04:54,710 --> 01:04:52,640
uh

1844
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:54,720
you know it's it's hard to convey

1845
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:56,160
exactly what i'm trying to say when i

1846
01:04:59,829 --> 01:04:57,280
just throw something out there on

1847
01:05:01,829 --> 01:04:59,839
twitter uh especially when in this

1848
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:01,839
instance you're kind of like hey it'd be

1849
01:05:05,109 --> 01:05:03,440
great if some of you guys you know i'm

1850
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:05,119
crowdsourcing

1851
01:05:09,190 --> 01:05:06,319
intelligence right there i'm

1852
01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:09,200
crowdsourcing uh hey can you guys help

1853
01:05:13,589 --> 01:05:10,960
look into this some more too because i

1854
01:05:17,670 --> 01:05:13,599
haven't had the time to effectively

1855
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:17,680
really dive into it but uh it came from

1856
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:20,319
uh you know early on and and i say that

1857
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:22,400
uh there was stuff that came from

1858
01:05:27,190 --> 01:05:25,039
outside of the the atip crew or the the

1859
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:27,200
usual suspect's crew but but just in

1860
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:29,760
early days of me looking at this subject

1861
01:05:34,630 --> 01:05:32,240
and and leaning on people that i knew

1862
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:34,640
and trusted and had known and had close

1863
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:36,319
relationships for a long time and saying

1864
01:05:39,430 --> 01:05:37,440
so what do you what do you know about

1865
01:05:41,029 --> 01:05:39,440
this what do you think about this

1866
01:05:43,829 --> 01:05:41,039
and this um

1867
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:43,839
the idea of a little more than you know

1868
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,200
you should check out some of the

1869
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:47,760
anti-neutrino stuff that you know that's

1870
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:51,359
going on or what maybe was picked up

1871
01:05:55,029 --> 01:05:53,520
during some of the anti-neutrino surveys

1872
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:55,039
that kind of thing

1873
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:55,920
um

1874
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:57,839
and so it got me very interested in it

1875
01:06:02,230 --> 01:06:00,000
uh but hey it's that's a difficult thing

1876
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:02,240
to dive too much into because it it is a

1877
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:05,200
very highly classified area

1878
01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:07,440
and then that that kind of idea that

1879
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:10,000
anti-neutrinos could play a part of it

1880
01:06:14,950 --> 01:06:13,280
was actually only exasperated uh a few

1881
01:06:18,069 --> 01:06:14,960
years ago when

1882
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:18,079
a very close good friend of mine who is

1883
01:06:21,349 --> 01:06:19,280
also

1884
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:21,359
a journalist who

1885
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:23,520
also you know is not a

1886
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:26,319
ufo journalist by any means um

1887
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:28,640
they they have written on the topic some

1888
01:06:34,470 --> 01:06:31,440
but they're a very well respected well

1889
01:06:37,270 --> 01:06:34,480
known national security

1890
01:06:39,349 --> 01:06:37,280
defense reporter and somebody that i

1891
01:06:40,309 --> 01:06:39,359
know firsthand is

1892
01:06:43,430 --> 01:06:40,319
really

1893
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:43,440
just exceptionally sourced in that world

1894
01:06:48,470 --> 01:06:46,400
and they brought that up to me uh

1895
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:48,480
out of the blue you know he's like what

1896
01:06:52,069 --> 01:06:50,160
do you think about this andy and i went

1897
01:06:54,069 --> 01:06:52,079
holy cow you're the only the second

1898
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:54,079
person i've ever heard that

1899
01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:56,160
and both of us were hearing that from

1900
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,599
sources that would have been in similar

1901
01:07:01,349 --> 01:06:59,680
kind of arenas and

1902
01:07:03,510 --> 01:07:01,359
i felt like were

1903
01:07:04,870 --> 01:07:03,520
really solid individuals

1904
01:07:06,950 --> 01:07:04,880
and so

1905
01:07:09,829 --> 01:07:06,960
what how the anti-neutrino thing goes

1906
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:09,839
into it um i i don't have a good answer

1907
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:11,520
for that when i brought it up in the

1908
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:13,359
context of how would you use that for

1909
01:07:18,150 --> 01:07:16,240
baiting it was more you know you take

1910
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,160
back the

1911
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:20,240
you you pull back a little bit and take

1912
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:23,200
the 50 000 foot overview of everything

1913
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:25,280
first and say okay

1914
01:07:30,069 --> 01:07:26,960
if i am

1915
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:30,079
going to engage and believe and assume

1916
01:07:33,109 --> 01:07:31,839
that you this is something that can be

1917
01:07:35,990 --> 01:07:33,119
debated

1918
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:36,000
then i am acting on the assumption or

1919
01:07:41,990 --> 01:07:40,000
the knowledge that this is a persistent

1920
01:07:43,990 --> 01:07:42,000
uh you know something this is something

1921
01:07:46,549 --> 01:07:44,000
that's persistent rather than just

1922
01:07:49,349 --> 01:07:46,559
transient you know you're you're not

1923
01:07:51,510 --> 01:07:49,359
going to go fishing in a pond that you

1924
01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:51,520
know fish occasionally swim through

1925
01:07:54,870 --> 01:07:53,280
maybe once a year

1926
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,880
but rather than one that you know that

1927
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:56,640
there's going to be fish there here

1928
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:58,000
that's when you're going to bait it and

1929
01:08:02,390 --> 01:07:59,520
try to to

1930
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:02,400
catch fish and so that 50 000 foot view

1931
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:03,760
is you have to understand it if they're

1932
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:05,520
going to bait it the assumption that

1933
01:08:08,069 --> 01:08:07,200
this is a persistent thing is already

1934
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:08,079
there

1935
01:08:12,950 --> 01:08:10,480
on top of the fact that you have

1936
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:12,960
some type of intelligence that you know

1937
01:08:18,229 --> 01:08:15,920
where to put those bait traps out at and

1938
01:08:20,550 --> 01:08:18,239
you know you you have been able to

1939
01:08:23,669 --> 01:08:20,560
narrow down areas of interest you know

1940
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:23,679
what ponds are are stocked and have the

1941
01:08:27,669 --> 01:08:24,960
big fish

1942
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:27,679
and so for example the catalina islands

1943
01:08:31,749 --> 01:08:29,440
is rumored heavily to be one of those

1944
01:08:33,990 --> 01:08:31,759
places right you know you've got a lot

1945
01:08:36,470 --> 01:08:34,000
of these stories from uh off the east

1946
01:08:38,470 --> 01:08:36,480
coast now and uh absolutely you know

1947
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:38,480
right there in that southern california

1948
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:40,560
range area you've got these lots of

1949
01:08:44,070 --> 01:08:41,679
accounts so

1950
01:08:47,669 --> 01:08:44,080
these would be areas where you would say

1951
01:08:49,430 --> 01:08:47,679
okay that's a good spot to do it uh the

1952
01:08:51,910 --> 01:08:49,440
the interesting thing with the

1953
01:08:53,669 --> 01:08:51,920
geospatial anti-neutrino map is that's a

1954
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,679
global map so you have this global

1955
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:55,199
widespread

1956
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:58,640
overview of it and that opens up a whole

1957
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:00,880
new potential that if you're going to

1958
01:09:06,229 --> 01:09:03,600
bait something like this and you want to

1959
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:06,239
do it covertly i'm not going to bait it

1960
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:08,319
off of catalina island because there's

1961
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:09,839
probably it's probably going to show up

1962
01:09:13,590 --> 01:09:11,440
on you know you and i are going to be

1963
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:13,600
talking about that cool youtube video of

1964
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:15,199
the ufo that people captured because we

1965
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:17,359
baited it out but if there's perhaps

1966
01:09:21,510 --> 01:09:19,679
areas where there are hot spots that are

1967
01:09:22,709 --> 01:09:21,520
very remote i mean

1968
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:22,719
especially we're talking about the navy

1969
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:23,920
and we're talking about the oceans you

1970
01:09:29,189 --> 01:09:26,319
know the the earth is

1971
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,199
far more covered by the oceans and so if

1972
01:09:32,709 --> 01:09:31,359
you've got remote areas and that you

1973
01:09:35,110 --> 01:09:32,719
know are good

1974
01:09:37,749 --> 01:09:35,120
quote fishing holes

1975
01:09:39,669 --> 01:09:37,759
and could this be potentially achieved

1976
01:09:41,749 --> 01:09:39,679
by looking at that anti-neutrino map

1977
01:09:43,749 --> 01:09:41,759
where you're identifying you have

1978
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:43,759
anti-neutrino

1979
01:09:48,950 --> 01:09:47,440
detecting them in areas where there

1980
01:09:51,430 --> 01:09:48,960
shouldn't be

1981
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:51,440
and now in terms of that i'm not

1982
01:09:55,510 --> 01:09:54,000
entirely sure that uh

1983
01:09:58,229 --> 01:09:55,520
you know to save some people some time

1984
01:10:00,550 --> 01:09:58,239
of like looking at the anti-neutrino map

1985
01:10:03,030 --> 01:10:00,560
pixel by pixel i'm not sure that that's

1986
01:10:05,990 --> 01:10:03,040
granular enough you know you would have

1987
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:06,000
to really uh maybe get into the real

1988
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:08,400
data of that to where you could pick up

1989
01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:09,920
that type of stuff

1990
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:12,239
um but that's what i was getting at when

1991
01:10:15,830 --> 01:10:14,719
i mentioned that is that i do think that

1992
01:10:18,310 --> 01:10:15,840
there's

1993
01:10:19,350 --> 01:10:18,320
some type of anti-neutrino component to

1994
01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:19,360
this

1995
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:22,560
uh how that exactly factors in i'm i'm

1996
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:24,640
still not clear on

1997
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:27,199
crowdsourcing i was hoping

1998
01:10:33,110 --> 01:10:30,800
ufo twitter has an amazing ability to uh

1999
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:33,120
to solve all sorts of mysteries

2000
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:34,880
when they put their mind to it

2001
01:10:38,950 --> 01:10:36,960
that is all for this week's show thank

2002
01:10:40,950 --> 01:10:38,960
you very much for listening please

2003
01:10:43,590 --> 01:10:40,960
remember to leave the podcast to review

2004
01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:43,600
on your chosen platform you can like

2005
01:10:47,830 --> 01:10:45,920
retweet and subscribe that would all be

2006
01:10:49,990 --> 01:10:47,840
very much appreciated the shows are

2007
01:10:51,510 --> 01:10:50,000
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

2008
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:51,520
more and more you can sign up at

2009
01:10:56,709 --> 01:10:54,000
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

2010
01:10:58,950 --> 01:10:56,719
podcast to access shows ad free as well

2011
01:11:01,750 --> 01:10:58,960
please get in touch on twitter facebook

2012
01:11:04,950 --> 01:11:01,760
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

2013
01:11:07,110 --> 01:11:04,960
twitter it's at ufouapam

2014
01:11:10,180 --> 01:11:07,120
and again folks as always keep looking

2015
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:10,190
up you never know what you might see

2016
01:11:24,480 --> 01:11:31,110
like alice

2017
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:37,240
i don't think he expected me

2018
01:11:37,250 --> 01:11:52,390
[Music]

2019
01:11:52,400 --> 01:12:06,950
cuz

2020
01:12:09,910 --> 01:12:08,229
there was something on my head and

2021
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,920
everything was weird and everything was

2022
01:12:12,870 --> 01:12:11,600
red i helped out with my boys they

2023
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:12,880
thought this was noise they thought it

2024
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:25,520
[Music]

2025
01:12:54,930 --> 01:12:51,350
time serious your space consider your

2026
01:13:16,830 --> 01:13:09,810
[Music]

2027
01:13:24,440 --> 01:13:16,840
it